SOCIETY
‘The Z-space Has Unexpectedly Become a Place For Political Thought’
April 1, 2025
- Ivan FilippovWriter and owner of the Telegram channel Na Zzzzzapadnom fronte bez peremen (“All quiet on the Western front”)
- Yevgeny SenshinJournalist
Ivan Filippov, who tracks the online and offline activity of Russia’s turbo-patriots, explains how the Z-community is reacting to the possibility of a Russia-Ukraine ceasefire.
The original interview in Russian was published in Republic and is being republished in an edited version and with their permission.
In the Z-community, the talks between the US and Russia and the US and Ukraine are viewed in different ways. For some, it is a “backroom deal” with the enemy and a betrayal of Russian soldiers, while for others, it is the end of a nightmare that began when they were mobilized – better negotiations than an endless nightmare.
What topics are of greatest concern to Z-bloggers today?
For the first time in the last three years, life after the war has begun to be seriously and extensively discussed. Not negotiations, not the terms of a peace agreement, but life itself. This was practically nonexistent before. And now this discussion has been going on for at least the past three weeks, in increasing detail, across a variety of aspects.
What are people discussing? There are four main themes. First, the army will immediately disband. As soon as there is the opportunity, it will happen. There are different estimates of how many men will leave the army forever. For instance, the sabotage assault reconnaissance group Rusich believes that 80% of soldiers will leave. Some say fewer, but no one doubts there will be a mass outflow from the army.
This is about mobilized soldiers first and foremost. As soon as they are allowed to demobilize, they will leave the armed forces. By the way, when Dmitri Medvedev speaks of a record number of contracts [to join the army], he is lying and exaggerating.
What topics are of greatest concern to Z-bloggers today?
For the first time in the last three years, life after the war has begun to be seriously and extensively discussed. Not negotiations, not the terms of a peace agreement, but life itself. This was practically nonexistent before. And now this discussion has been going on for at least the past three weeks, in increasing detail, across a variety of aspects.
What are people discussing? There are four main themes. First, the army will immediately disband. As soon as there is the opportunity, it will happen. There are different estimates of how many men will leave the army forever. For instance, the sabotage assault reconnaissance group Rusich believes that 80% of soldiers will leave. Some say fewer, but no one doubts there will be a mass outflow from the army.
This is about mobilized soldiers first and foremost. As soon as they are allowed to demobilize, they will leave the armed forces. By the way, when Dmitri Medvedev speaks of a record number of contracts [to join the army], he is lying and exaggerating.
“Many kontraktniki are actually mobilized men who were forced to sign contracts because higher-ups need the right numbers. Mobilized men are told: either go and die in assaults on Ukrainian positions or sign a contract.”
A cemetery in Rostov with soldiers killed in Ukraine. "Construction of the Segment of Valor to be of high quality". Source: YouTube
This topic has also been widely discussed over the past month.
As for real contract soldiers – professional soldiers – they will leave, as the Z-channels write, for several reasons.
First, they are tired of putting up with incompetence and arbitrariness of the command. Almost the entire army leadership, from their perspective, is idiots. No one wants to deal with them longer than they need to.
Here, I will quote one recent post like that. The author of the Telegram channel RosgVardeets quotes his comrade:
Those young people who are serving now… even if they keep serving, having ended up in a unit where every [officer] with stars wants to humiliate you – not teach you something, but humiliate you – then these guys, after everything they have been through, will either start fighting everyone in the unit or will just quit…
Second, the end of the war means the end of high salaries. It is unclear how to survive afterward. Peacetime salaries are a pittance; you can barely get by on them. This issue is discussed in great detail, with figures, calculations and so on.
Finally, another issue related to life after the war is PTSD, crime and everything connected with it. Soldiers will go home to a country where bureaucrats and fellow citizens will tell them: “We did not send you there.” What then?
For example, the author of the Telegram channel My russkiye – nam pokh (“we are Russians – we don’t give a shit”):
Many will look to crime. And you know what their apologists will say? If they were paid properly, provided with work, service, an apartment… then they would not resort to crime. Obviously, the majority will be fine and reintegrate into civilian life without big issues. But a minority is enough for… the majority to suffer.
There is also discussion of a “backroom deal” between the Kremlin and the White House. They fear there will be another “Minsk” or “Khasavyurt,” that the interests of the Russian nation will be betrayed and that the sacrifices of Russian soldiers will be for nothing, etc. This is not new; these fears have come up previously as well.
They are paying particular attention to the fact that Putin is speaking with Trump. On the one hand, this is important for them because their supreme commander is talking to the US president on an equal footing. It is also important that these two are determining the fate of Ukraine without Zelensky.
On the other hand, they are deeply concerned about the policy of resetting relations with the US. To judge sentiment in the fighting army by what Z-channels say, there is real anti-Americanism. The military remembers that the US supplied the Patriot missiles and Bradley fighting vehicles [that killed their comrades], and they categorically do not like the idea of becoming allies with the Americans.
I will quote a recent statement by Zakhar Prilepin: “deliveries of US military aid to Kyiv via the Polish hub have resumed… the US is supplying weapons that are killing our brothers, Russian people.”
If many of these zetniki you are talking about are tired of this war, how would you assess their loyalty to the Russian regime, which actually started the war?
Indeed, there are authors who honestly write that the army [is tired of] fighting. Everyone wants it to end.
As for real contract soldiers – professional soldiers – they will leave, as the Z-channels write, for several reasons.
First, they are tired of putting up with incompetence and arbitrariness of the command. Almost the entire army leadership, from their perspective, is idiots. No one wants to deal with them longer than they need to.
Here, I will quote one recent post like that. The author of the Telegram channel RosgVardeets quotes his comrade:
Those young people who are serving now… even if they keep serving, having ended up in a unit where every [officer] with stars wants to humiliate you – not teach you something, but humiliate you – then these guys, after everything they have been through, will either start fighting everyone in the unit or will just quit…
Second, the end of the war means the end of high salaries. It is unclear how to survive afterward. Peacetime salaries are a pittance; you can barely get by on them. This issue is discussed in great detail, with figures, calculations and so on.
Finally, another issue related to life after the war is PTSD, crime and everything connected with it. Soldiers will go home to a country where bureaucrats and fellow citizens will tell them: “We did not send you there.” What then?
For example, the author of the Telegram channel My russkiye – nam pokh (“we are Russians – we don’t give a shit”):
Many will look to crime. And you know what their apologists will say? If they were paid properly, provided with work, service, an apartment… then they would not resort to crime. Obviously, the majority will be fine and reintegrate into civilian life without big issues. But a minority is enough for… the majority to suffer.
There is also discussion of a “backroom deal” between the Kremlin and the White House. They fear there will be another “Minsk” or “Khasavyurt,” that the interests of the Russian nation will be betrayed and that the sacrifices of Russian soldiers will be for nothing, etc. This is not new; these fears have come up previously as well.
They are paying particular attention to the fact that Putin is speaking with Trump. On the one hand, this is important for them because their supreme commander is talking to the US president on an equal footing. It is also important that these two are determining the fate of Ukraine without Zelensky.
On the other hand, they are deeply concerned about the policy of resetting relations with the US. To judge sentiment in the fighting army by what Z-channels say, there is real anti-Americanism. The military remembers that the US supplied the Patriot missiles and Bradley fighting vehicles [that killed their comrades], and they categorically do not like the idea of becoming allies with the Americans.
I will quote a recent statement by Zakhar Prilepin: “deliveries of US military aid to Kyiv via the Polish hub have resumed… the US is supplying weapons that are killing our brothers, Russian people.”
If many of these zetniki you are talking about are tired of this war, how would you assess their loyalty to the Russian regime, which actually started the war?
Indeed, there are authors who honestly write that the army [is tired of] fighting. Everyone wants it to end.
“And many do not care how it ends, as long as they can go home. Such sentiments can often be found in texts these days. But this is still not the majority.”
Yevgeny Prigozhin reports on the capture of Bakhmut. May 20, 2023. Source: VK
As for loyalty to the regime, “professional patriots” live with the certainty that only enemies protest.
Moreover, they are proud of this. A true “patriot,” in their worldview, would never take to the streets, would never “organize a Maidan.”
They fear and respect Putin. They are ready to criticize everyone else. They absolutely despise the chief of the general staff.
As for the minister of defense, his line that “you are allowed to make mistakes, but you are not allowed to lie” is now quoted by zetniki exclusively in an ironic light, though there is still little open criticism of him.
You say they will not protest. But I have heard from several publicists, bloggers and political commentators that soldiers coming home from the front could replace the old liberal opposition. Only this new opposition will be armed not with balloons and flashlights but with real weapons. Perhaps the example of Prigozhin makes them think so. What do you think?
To put it delicately, this is not science fiction. Since the start of the war, the biggest prowar rally got only a couple of hundred people. When Kherson was surrendered, only one person came out to protest. When Girkin(Strelkov) was convicted, a handful of people came to court to support him – literally a dozen or so “angry patriots.”
Or Prigozhin. Remember how much talk there was about how [his supporters] would unite, never forget and take revenge…
In the end, Wagner [fell apart]. Some are in jail and have their mouths shut. Some are in the trenches, also silent. Some are fighting in Africa. Some even joined Akhmat, which previously seemed impossible.
“Angry patriots” are people who will do what the higher-ups tell them to do. They will just do it with less enthusiasm.
Some Z-authors write that the army is tired of fighting. But there is another faction that thinks differently. How often do their posts mention the word “victory,” and what does it generally mean today?
There are still people who call for achieving the goals that were initially set out by Russia. This includes destroying Zelensky's government, eliminating the Ukrainian army and fully taking over the regions listed in the Russian Constitution, as well as Odesa and Mykolaiv regions.
Here, I will quote a recent appeal to Putin by the authors of the Telegram channel Stalin’s Falcons. This post has gained two million views. It is something like a manifesto of “passionate patriots”:
Comrade Supreme Commander-in-Chief!
We understand the oligarchs have flown to you from their hideouts in Dubai and are selling you the idea of peace and business. But later they will stab you in the back. We understand part of society and the security services did not share the ideals of the special military operation and still do not. We understand there will be more costs and losses and not everyone will live to see Victory. But for patriots, the fate of the Motherland is above all else.
At the same time:
The Nazi nest has not been destroyed.
This means the genocide of those who believed in us in Ukraine will continue.
This means terrorist attacks against your officers in Moscow will continue.
This means we will lose our last chance to become strong and independent.
Only full and unconditional capitulation [by Ukraine]. We will not waver!
But this does not reflect the attitudes of the masses. It is rather a marginal view. Many of them have almost stopped mentioning Kyiv.
They still write that Odesa and Mykolaiv should be Russian, and if not Odesa and Mykolaiv, then at least Kherson…
There is a feeling that even the most patriotic authors have, let’s say, certain suspicions, that the future victory is far from what they originally envisioned.
By the way, what are they saying about Kursk Region?
They say it is a brilliant victory for the Russian military. No one mentions that for six months, the Russian army had not been able to recapture villages on its own territory. This had not happened since the Great Patriotic War. All of this is hushed up.
You mentioned that few want to take Kyiv anymore. But in general, how far are they prepared to go?
They have gone back and forth, and that is not easy for them. If taking Kyiv is no longer relevant, then what are all our sacrifices for, they ask. Why is there still no Russian Mykolaiv, no Russian Odesa? But they understand no one has an answer for these questions. Whatever the boss says, so be it – and they keep quiet.
Is the attitude toward the US and Americans changing in the Z-community?
The peace talks between Trump and Putin are something that confuses them greatly. For them, the US is not an abstract concept; it is the main supplier of weapons to the enemy.
There is official Russian anti-Americanism. But now we see its depth. All the television propaganda is not merely doing a one-eighty – it has already done a one-eighty. Meanwhile, for the Z-community just the idea of that is offensive.
Moreover, they are proud of this. A true “patriot,” in their worldview, would never take to the streets, would never “organize a Maidan.”
They fear and respect Putin. They are ready to criticize everyone else. They absolutely despise the chief of the general staff.
As for the minister of defense, his line that “you are allowed to make mistakes, but you are not allowed to lie” is now quoted by zetniki exclusively in an ironic light, though there is still little open criticism of him.
You say they will not protest. But I have heard from several publicists, bloggers and political commentators that soldiers coming home from the front could replace the old liberal opposition. Only this new opposition will be armed not with balloons and flashlights but with real weapons. Perhaps the example of Prigozhin makes them think so. What do you think?
To put it delicately, this is not science fiction. Since the start of the war, the biggest prowar rally got only a couple of hundred people. When Kherson was surrendered, only one person came out to protest. When Girkin(Strelkov) was convicted, a handful of people came to court to support him – literally a dozen or so “angry patriots.”
Or Prigozhin. Remember how much talk there was about how [his supporters] would unite, never forget and take revenge…
In the end, Wagner [fell apart]. Some are in jail and have their mouths shut. Some are in the trenches, also silent. Some are fighting in Africa. Some even joined Akhmat, which previously seemed impossible.
“Angry patriots” are people who will do what the higher-ups tell them to do. They will just do it with less enthusiasm.
Some Z-authors write that the army is tired of fighting. But there is another faction that thinks differently. How often do their posts mention the word “victory,” and what does it generally mean today?
There are still people who call for achieving the goals that were initially set out by Russia. This includes destroying Zelensky's government, eliminating the Ukrainian army and fully taking over the regions listed in the Russian Constitution, as well as Odesa and Mykolaiv regions.
Here, I will quote a recent appeal to Putin by the authors of the Telegram channel Stalin’s Falcons. This post has gained two million views. It is something like a manifesto of “passionate patriots”:
Comrade Supreme Commander-in-Chief!
We understand the oligarchs have flown to you from their hideouts in Dubai and are selling you the idea of peace and business. But later they will stab you in the back. We understand part of society and the security services did not share the ideals of the special military operation and still do not. We understand there will be more costs and losses and not everyone will live to see Victory. But for patriots, the fate of the Motherland is above all else.
At the same time:
The Nazi nest has not been destroyed.
This means the genocide of those who believed in us in Ukraine will continue.
This means terrorist attacks against your officers in Moscow will continue.
This means we will lose our last chance to become strong and independent.
Only full and unconditional capitulation [by Ukraine]. We will not waver!
But this does not reflect the attitudes of the masses. It is rather a marginal view. Many of them have almost stopped mentioning Kyiv.
They still write that Odesa and Mykolaiv should be Russian, and if not Odesa and Mykolaiv, then at least Kherson…
There is a feeling that even the most patriotic authors have, let’s say, certain suspicions, that the future victory is far from what they originally envisioned.
By the way, what are they saying about Kursk Region?
They say it is a brilliant victory for the Russian military. No one mentions that for six months, the Russian army had not been able to recapture villages on its own territory. This had not happened since the Great Patriotic War. All of this is hushed up.
You mentioned that few want to take Kyiv anymore. But in general, how far are they prepared to go?
They have gone back and forth, and that is not easy for them. If taking Kyiv is no longer relevant, then what are all our sacrifices for, they ask. Why is there still no Russian Mykolaiv, no Russian Odesa? But they understand no one has an answer for these questions. Whatever the boss says, so be it – and they keep quiet.
Is the attitude toward the US and Americans changing in the Z-community?
The peace talks between Trump and Putin are something that confuses them greatly. For them, the US is not an abstract concept; it is the main supplier of weapons to the enemy.
There is official Russian anti-Americanism. But now we see its depth. All the television propaganda is not merely doing a one-eighty – it has already done a one-eighty. Meanwhile, for the Z-community just the idea of that is offensive.
It is necessary to choose a visual aid that is appropriate for the topic and audience.
You mentioned that Z-authors are now discussing life after the war extensively. Still, they remain loyal to the regime and, if they criticize something, it is only lower-level officials. But let’s remember veterans of the Soviet-Afghan war united in various organizations, both official and unofficial, illegal, criminal, etc. In society, they came to be known as the Afgantsy. Could the “Ukraintsy” (Russian veterans of the Ukraine war) become a similar phenomenon in the current reality?
IF: A year or a year and a half ago, there were many texts saying the boys would come home from the front and fix everything. This was sometimes related to high-profile crimes committed by migrants from Central Asia or even to cases of lawlessness involving local authorities in one region or another. In general, the idea was that they would come back and punish all the bad guys.
But those discussions have since died down. Moreover, I remember several texts directly stating: guys, why do you think anyone will let you do anything?
Today, I do not come across these discussions at all. As I mentioned, they now talk mostly about money.
I believe some special military operation veterans will go into crime. But Russian siloviki are already preparing for this scenario, in my view. And they are doing so not because they are good police officers, but because they understand: if anything happens, they will be the ones taking the bullets first.
We have considered the negative side of this phenomenon. But some veterans will certainly be able to adapt to postwar life and even, perhaps, become role models for the younger generation, visit schools, talk about patriotism and acts of valor. How do you view this aspect?
No, I do not believe they can be made into role models. For example, let’s take mobilized men, whom it would be easy to make into “special military operation heroes,” like, “they answered the call when their motherland needed them.”
This sounds good, but mobilized soldiers have been fighting for more than two years straight. Nothing like that happened in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Chechnya or any other wars or local conflicts in recent decades. We have seen what war does to people, and this is an unprecedented case. These people have spent more than two years on the front line, without rest or relaxation.
“Special military operation heroes” figure in crime reports literally every day, and the war is still not over. The scale of the trouble and problems that veterans will bring home is hard to even imagine.
Z-channels are already discussing numerous cases where people do not want to hire veterans. Not only, by the way, because they are dangerous – but many employers are afraid that if they hire them, they will not be able to fire them later. How could they fire a “hero”? It’s easier not to hire them at all.
I have no doubt the government and progovernment media will try very hard to create a cult around veterans. But I think the everyday reality will radically force a change of plans.
Some time ago, Putin called special military operation soldiers “the real elite of Russia and the pride of the country,” on whom the government ought to rely. What do you think – will the commander-in-chief’s call be heard?
I think not only will they not become an elite that will occupy positions of power, but the entire country will do everything it can to forget all of this as soon as possible. Just as it has been making every effort for the past three years to ignore the special military operation.
Sure, of course, there will be conflicts like we mentioned. There will be people who are unhappy that everything ended in a “backroom deal,” that yesterday’s soldiers will now be paid very little. But overall, society will neither notice these complaints nor show sympathy to special military operation veterans. It will definitely not give them special respect or view them as an elite worthy of governing the country.
IF: A year or a year and a half ago, there were many texts saying the boys would come home from the front and fix everything. This was sometimes related to high-profile crimes committed by migrants from Central Asia or even to cases of lawlessness involving local authorities in one region or another. In general, the idea was that they would come back and punish all the bad guys.
But those discussions have since died down. Moreover, I remember several texts directly stating: guys, why do you think anyone will let you do anything?
Today, I do not come across these discussions at all. As I mentioned, they now talk mostly about money.
I believe some special military operation veterans will go into crime. But Russian siloviki are already preparing for this scenario, in my view. And they are doing so not because they are good police officers, but because they understand: if anything happens, they will be the ones taking the bullets first.
We have considered the negative side of this phenomenon. But some veterans will certainly be able to adapt to postwar life and even, perhaps, become role models for the younger generation, visit schools, talk about patriotism and acts of valor. How do you view this aspect?
No, I do not believe they can be made into role models. For example, let’s take mobilized men, whom it would be easy to make into “special military operation heroes,” like, “they answered the call when their motherland needed them.”
This sounds good, but mobilized soldiers have been fighting for more than two years straight. Nothing like that happened in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Chechnya or any other wars or local conflicts in recent decades. We have seen what war does to people, and this is an unprecedented case. These people have spent more than two years on the front line, without rest or relaxation.
“Special military operation heroes” figure in crime reports literally every day, and the war is still not over. The scale of the trouble and problems that veterans will bring home is hard to even imagine.
Z-channels are already discussing numerous cases where people do not want to hire veterans. Not only, by the way, because they are dangerous – but many employers are afraid that if they hire them, they will not be able to fire them later. How could they fire a “hero”? It’s easier not to hire them at all.
I have no doubt the government and progovernment media will try very hard to create a cult around veterans. But I think the everyday reality will radically force a change of plans.
Some time ago, Putin called special military operation soldiers “the real elite of Russia and the pride of the country,” on whom the government ought to rely. What do you think – will the commander-in-chief’s call be heard?
I think not only will they not become an elite that will occupy positions of power, but the entire country will do everything it can to forget all of this as soon as possible. Just as it has been making every effort for the past three years to ignore the special military operation.
Sure, of course, there will be conflicts like we mentioned. There will be people who are unhappy that everything ended in a “backroom deal,” that yesterday’s soldiers will now be paid very little. But overall, society will neither notice these complaints nor show sympathy to special military operation veterans. It will definitely not give them special respect or view them as an elite worthy of governing the country.
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