Politics
‘We Are Dealing with a “Phase Transition” that Has Been Building Up for Decades’
April 23, 2025
  • Vladimir Pastukhov
    Political scientist and lawyer
  • Yevgeny Senshin
    Journalist
In an interview with Republic, political scientist Vladimir Pastukhov discusses the first 100 days of Trump’s second term as US president and what his “revolution” means the Russia-Ukraine war, US-Russia relations and the world order.
The original interview in Russian was published in Republic. A shortened version is being republished here with their permission.
The portrait of Trump gifted to him by Putin. Source: Social Media
Some believe that Trump is bluffing or out of his depth and has started something that is doomed to fail. But you recently wrote that the US is going through its own version of perestroika. Will Trump’s “perestroika” ultimately repeat the fate of Gorbachev’s, even though their goals and agendas are fundamentally different?

I do not think Trump is insane. And even if he were insane, it does not matter in politics. Because in the end, in politics even madmen embody long-term historical trends. At the same time, I definitely do not believe that today’s trends have no alternatives.

It is like any revolution. The question is never whether a revolution is possible. If it is ripe, it will happen sooner or later. The only question is whether this way of solving the problem is the only possible and the optimal one. Or whether there are other ways through which the same objectives can be achieved with less blood and fewer losses.

The same applies to Trump. We are dealing with a “phase transition” that has been building up for decades, at the very least. We are dealing with a reaction to the economic, ideological and political excesses and imbalances of the previous period.
When contradictions accumulate over decades, there always comes a moment when everything erupts. Apparently, under Trump we have reached the point when these contradictions of the previous period have become so acute that it is no longer possible to pretend that nothing is happening. In my view, we are now in the early stages of a revolutionary process that will change the paradigms that defined the last 80 years.

Does this mean it will be a linear process? Not necessarily.
“In any case, we have already slipped into a situation of irreversible transition. There will be no return to the status quo of 10-15 years ago, no matter how much people may long for it.”
Saudi Arabia hosted US-Russia talks in March. US Secretary of State Marco Rubio is second from the right, and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov second from the left. Source: YouTube
Trump will clearly not be able to end the Russia-Ukraine war in his first 100 days in office. Overall, it seems the war interests him less and less; the main thing is to get the US out as quickly as possible. Judging by recent events, where might Russia-US relations go next?

The disappointment that nothing has been solved in a day is somewhat unjustified.

Trump is advancing an entirely coherent narrative. The premise is the USSR ceased to exist long ago but, according to Trump, the US has all this time been fighting a nonexistent strategic adversary.

This view has long existed in certain circles in the US. It used to be a marginal position, but Trump has brought it into the political mainstream.

It was opposed by inertia: to a large extent, US policy has been made be people who could not move beyond the Cold War.

From Trump’s perspective, Russia is a relatively small country in terms of economic potential that has long ceased to be a global rival of the US. Yet the US has supposedly made Russia out to be its main adversary – even though its real adversary is elsewhere.

What is getting in the way of this view? Russia is undermining the system of international relations, rules, values and institutions established at enormous human cost in the 20th century. That makes Russia a disruptor. As such, it needs to be reined in.

So it turns out that things are not so bad for the Kremlin. There is no real economic or ideological basis for conflict with the US. Trump has identified not just China but also Europe as his main opponents – which perfectly suits the Kremlin.

The inertia of the war remains. The Kremlin has certain geopolitical issues. There is an understandable concern that a ceasefire before agreements are reached would be a repeat of the 1990s.

That is why the most unrealistic thing the Kremlin could do now is to accept a ceasefire proposal and only then start negotiating. I do not believe that is likely.

More likely is a peace agreement. The Kremlin will agree to a ceasefire only under pressure – and so far, we see no pressure. If it does emerge, it will be leverage we do not know about, do not foresee and do not factor into our assessments.
“Trump presents a unique opportunity for the Kremlin. If the Kremlin misses this chance to get out of the war, it may go down as Putin’s greatest geopolitical blunder.”
Conversely, if Trump fails to progress beyond the issue of a ceasefire with Zelensky, the Kremlin will find it difficult to accept a ceasefire on the proposed terms.

The situation is objectively complicated. Too many factors are working against a resolution. I give only a 10-15% chance that the negotiations can overcome them. Because there are no strategic incentives for conflict between the US and Russia.
U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance clash with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy during an Oval Office meeting on February 28, 2025. Source: Wiki Commons
Even if US interest in the Russia-Ukraine situation is waning, the EU definitely could replace the US. But to what extent? Trump publicly told Zelensky, “you do not have the cards.” But perhaps Zelensky has some cards? Otherwise, Ukraine would not have resisted this long and would not support Zelensky. What do you think?

There are too many unknowns. Chief among them is the ability of Europe – assuming it can muster a unified will, which is never a given – to replace the US as Ukraine’s military backer. I am not expert in defense technology or strategy, so I cannot say.

It is theoretically possible for Europe to take on full financial responsibility for the war, to become Ukraine’s sole sponsor. But because it lacks real military resources of its own to share with Ukraine, it has to strike a deal with Trump for him not to oppose US arm sales to Ukraine. In theory, this scheme is possible. In practice, I do not know – it does not seem very realistic. If it does happen, Zelensky will have achieved a real breakthrough.

Working in the opposite direction is that it has been almost two months since the Munich Security Conference. The aid package approved by Biden will run out around June. Trump, despite his talk about sanctions against Russia, has yet to take the one and only step that could actually make the Kremlin nervous – proposing an extension of that military aid. Europe too is dragging its feet publicly.
“Zelensky’s only real card, which no one can fully measure still, is the Ukrainian people’s determination to hold out.”
Paradoxically, if Zelensky does not lose public support and Ukrainians express a clear will to keep fighting, then he has a card. This needs to be understood.

You say Trump has chosen two opponents: China and Europe. Where do you think Trump’s foreign policy will lead? Will there not be a split in the Western world?

Trump has long viewed Europe as a competitor, not an ally. He has been consistent on this since the 1980s, when he first went public with these views.

To understand [his view], recall how the post-World War II global order was structured. After World War II, Europe’s political agency was circumscribed. It was circumscribed by the US. The US basically offered Europe a security umbrella against the Soviet threat.
“In exchange for protecting Europe, the US felt entitled to a range of small favors.”
President Putin meeting with US President’s Special Envoy Steve Witkoff. St Petersburg, April 11, 2025. Source: Kremlin.ru
Later, the situation began to change as Europe gained economic agency. It has been an uneven process, but the trajectory is clear. Europe emerged as an independent economic actor, especially after the European bureaucracy became entrenched. Europe started moving not parallel to, but at times perpendicular to US interests.

This was already evident during Trump’s first term, causing him great consternation. His response was predictable: what is the US paying for?

So the US was guided for a while by this “Potsdam logic” of being obligated to defend Europe. But this could not continue forever. European societies are now more comfortable and prosperous than the US. There is a lot more socialism, in a positive sense, in Europe. And the US leadership asks: why are we underwriting that? Hence the effort to break with the “Potsdam logic.”

There is a fork in the road ahead. Europe could pair its economic agency with political sovereignty. A new, more balanced relationship could emerge with the US; a new alliance could be built, with more considered, more rational and more weighted European participation in all issues.

Or the Americans and Europeans may fail to find common ground. In that case, the split will be long term, and Europe will begin drifting toward China. Trump’s adventure would then end in a serious geopolitical loss for the US.

Still, I remain cautiously optimistic. I believe there will be a reset of the relationship and, after a period of turbulence, the two pillars of Western civilization will find a new basis for relations.

Trump has fingered China as the principal rival or even enemy of the US. China has seemingly taken the Soviet Union’s place in this new cold war – or at least this tariff war. Is Trump seeking to make a deal or is this a manifestation of long-standing antagonism? Could it escalate into something beyond tariffs?

In US-China relations, the problem lies not with China, but with the US. It is not China advancing; it is the US retreating. This is reminiscent of the USSR’s collapse. All was calm, and then the imperial center suddenly collapsed, disappeared.

That is what is happening now with the US. The difference is its turn has not come yet. China is not doing anything extraordinary. The pressure is slowly rising, but China is not rising in a very aggressive way.
“The problem is the US could not sustain the burden of being the global engine that it took on after the collapse of the USSR.”
Playing the global policeman by itself proved unsustainable.

The US is trying to withdraw. But it wants to withdraw in an orderly fashion, on favorable terms. In other words, it is the US, not China, that has initiated all these momentous processes. The US wants the retreat to look like an advance. China is unprepared for this. For China, it is all happening too early.

In two key ways China seems to be different from the USSR as a side in a cold war with the US. First, China’s military capacity – including its nuclear arsenal – is clearly underdeveloped as it stands today. Second, its economy is not self-sufficient. It would be hard for China to switch to an autarkic model.

China’s domestic stability rests on being the world’s factory. So I expect it to behave cautiously.

China is interested in preserving certain rules and protocols of globalization. With Putin and Trump seeing controlled chaos in the world as a way to stabilize their power, China is put in an awkward spot – it is interested in shaping rules for a truly multipolar world based on a bunch of agreements.

Trump’s goal today is definitely not war with China. His goal is to make a deal with China and neutralize Russia as a player so China cannot use it to improve its leverage.
The danger is that Trump’s temperament may blow up his strategy. And then, ironically, the deal could be sealed by someone else who is less flamboyant.
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